Paint Guru's

Discussion in 'Color is everything!' started by Steve73GS, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. Steve73GS

    Steve73GS 73 GEE YES

    As the driving season is winding down, I'm planning on getting my car painted over the winter. I have a novice idea about what to look for in a paint shop but am looking for advice as to what questions I should ask to make sure I don't miss anything. Since the car will not be a trailer queen or showcar, I'm not looking for a "Picasso " job to put the car's value way under water when done. At the same time, I'm looking for the best job possible on a somewhat limited budget. The car was painted approximately 30 years ago and had rust repair done in the normal areas however, not the greatest job was done at that time and some bondo waviness is apparent. Also, now have a couple small new spots and some minor dings. Would like to repaint in a a similar color with a little flake. Anyone have any advice? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Stage 2 iron

    Stage 2 iron 472 IRON HEAD STAGE 2

    I was the first class auto painter for 20+ years I have to say you get what you pay for when it comes to a re-paint to do your car right it Hass to be taken down to the metal and start fresh with bodywork and rust repair depends on your budget. You could save a lot of money if you dismantle your car and strip your car down to metal. good luck with your project.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  3. Steve73GS

    Steve73GS 73 GEE YES


    Thanks. Yes I realize it has to be stripped. Can previous bondo be sanded and corrected/skimmed to take out waviness? Those areas had surface rust. Previous rust repair where rusted through was done with metal and bondo, there is no bleed through in those areas and they still look pretty good but could be touched up. Vinyl top is in good shape with no bubbling. What about paint? I know there is single stage and other types plus clearcoat. Any recommedations?
     
  4. Stage 2 iron

    Stage 2 iron 472 IRON HEAD STAGE 2

    A good body man can strip off the old Bondo and spot blast any rust spots that are under it an make sure it's straight for primer. Sounds like you need to go basecoat clearcoat I used to spray PPG, Dupont chroma base, RM, they're all quality paints. If you plan on keeping the car I would go with a high-quality paint if you plan on selling it they do sell lower cheaper clearcoat.
     
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  5. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    Sounds like you are opening pandora's box. Sounds like the previous work is a bit shoddy. No decent body guy will simply skim over previous repairs and call it good. They can't guarantee someone's work from 30 years ago and they will want to remove all the old filler.

    What is the budget you have in mind?
     
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  6. Steve73GS

    Steve73GS 73 GEE YES


    Definitely keeping the car so will look to go with better paint. I think where it was skimmed is rust free but if the old bondo is better fully removed then maybe better to go that route if not cost prohibitive.

    Previous work wasn't the best but I do think the rust issues were adequately addressed since I don't see any bleed through and it's been 30 years. It's just the waviness, I don't see any cracking. As far as budget, would like to keep it under 10k.
     
  7. PCUB

    PCUB PCUB

    Word of mouth references in your local area are key; car clubs , show and shine events can point you in right direction. With virus constraints most car enthusiast events are on hold so if you see a classic with a good paint job inquire where, how and how long ago. The painter I used within the last 5 years billed me for milestones completed and allowed me to buy patch panels and some parts as needed. The cost of paint materials has definitely gone up over last couple years . I spent $16k with a quality shop and work was completed within 4-5 months.
     
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  8. Steve73GS

    Steve73GS 73 GEE YES


    Yes, I've been doing this and have spoken to a couple of shops casually. Before having serious discussions and narrowing down to two or three shops for final consideration, I was hoping to become more knowledgeable so I'm asking all the right questions and make a good decision. Would hate to dump a bunch of cash and come out disappointed because I didn't go into it well informed or have misguided expectations. Is it unreasonable to expect a decent job for 10k or less?
     
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  9. Stage 2 iron

    Stage 2 iron 472 IRON HEAD STAGE 2

    Depends on the labor rate. Probably 350 hours in labor from start to finish not including reassembly that's on you
     
  10. Steve73GS

    Steve73GS 73 GEE YES

    If that's the case it sounds like I'm light @ 10k especially considering the cost of materials has gotten so expensive.
     
  11. Stage 2 iron

    Stage 2 iron 472 IRON HEAD STAGE 2

    If your car only needs to be sanded and primed and some minor bodywork I say 10 grand could get it done for a driver.
     
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  12. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    10k is a realistic number if you do the dirty work- pull the interior, bumpers and weatherstrip etc and reinstall it all
     
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  13. gsgns4me

    gsgns4me Well-Known Member

    A reputable shop will be like any other business. All work completed THEN payment is made. None of this $XXX up front, we need $XXX a few weeks later, etc., etc.
     
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  14. OZGS455

    OZGS455 Oh what a wonderful day!

    No way you'd get all that done DownUnder for $10K by a reputable shop.
    No way in the world .
    Bodywork game is very dodgy , I should know cos I'm in it.
    I've been employed by some very unscrupulous companies in the past.
    It's a minefield out there .
    You'd be looking at triple that for a full strip to bare metal , and to deal with the can of worms that could be opened.
    Only way to deal with the unknown is to quote worst case scenario or negotiate an hourly rate with a REPUTABLE shop,
    or a semi retired old school tradesman .
     
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  15. Brian Albrecht

    Brian Albrecht Gold Level Monkey

    Given your own description, and where you want to be, (I assume it's a '73 Colonade Coupe) I think I would actually approach someone this way. You haven't offered to do any of the work, so here is what you tell them. You're not worried about reshooting door jambs and the like (stay close on color). To keep labor down you want minimum disassembly and reassembly (in example bumpers & sheetmetal stay on and get masked but marker lights and headlight doors removed but pull the rear window if leaks). Then you want the spots, as you call them, cleaned up (maybe 3M black Abradable wheel) and refilled with filler and same goes for the dings - more filler. Spot epoxy prime. The idea is to disturb the old finish as little as possible (assuming, and this is critical, it is still adhering to the car and old filler isn't cracking).

    Then have them da the car with 320 (air board were possible), fill most obvious low areas, spot epoxy prime, urethane build prime the entire car and hand block the entire car with mostly 180 and 320. Re-prime entire car with build urethane followed by low pressure block with 180/ mostly 320 /then 500 wet on a soft pad. Get your base 3 coats and clear 3 to 4 coats using one of the brands mentioned above. Don't cheap out on the clear though! Tell them you want a "quick cut and buff" before reassembly above the lower body line, which is pretty high up on that car.

    Look for a shop more known for refinishing as opposed to a shop known for restoration (you even said paint shop). You should get out for under 10 even with materials. While there are no guarantees because you didn't go to the metal and make all new and correct repairs - the result should look satisfactory (read much straighter) and you won't be terribly upside down. If you keep it out of the weather and minimize wet washes, it should look good for another 30 years! Consider this, most products are now designed to go over a previously applied finish, so it should all come together and hold up well. Don't tell the shop you want it done "in between other jobs" or anything that makes it sound like your not ready to have it knocked out and pay-in full upon billing. They should be able to get her done in less than a 3 week window, and possibly as quickly as one week depending on their resources.

    Good luck and keep us posted. Disclaimer, I am not a guru, just my own cars and 5 years part time in a resto shop...
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  16. bostoncat68

    bostoncat68 Platinum Level Contributor

    Interesting thread. Curious if someone wanted to get to bare metal, any downside to using dustless blasting? My limited experience with sanding cars suggests it's a ton of time and all that dust isn't good for you or the place you do the work. Of course, it's not cheap... but it seems like it would be a good use of $$.
     
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  17. Smartin

    Smartin antiqueautomotiveservice.com Staff Member

    I asked my blasting guy about dustless and he advised against it, due to the material “caking” in crevices and the near impossibility to remove it all. Blasting has its place, but even the dry stuff is really time consuming to remove from the hidden areas. And even then, it still shows up at the most inopportune times.
     
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  18. Steve73GS

    Steve73GS 73 GEE YES

    Really appreciate everyone's comments and input....interesting different ways to approach this. Yes, it's a 73 Colonnade Coup GS. Looks like there are tradeoffs to consider to get the best bang for the buck and given the labor intensiveness of stripping, this is something to consider. If car wasn't completely stripped, assuming existing paint is well adhered as Brian mentioned, any thoughts on paintless debt repair on the dings to further minimize bondo rather than using bondo? Or, is it not worth it? I suppose I've always thought there was a negative connotation associated with bondo but maybe that is misplaced? Car is garaged, doesn't see rain and is washed minimally.
     
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  19. Brian Albrecht

    Brian Albrecht Gold Level Monkey

    Wouldn't bother with paintless dent removal. The car has filler already and needs a complete repaint.
     
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  20. 12lives

    12lives Gravity is matter warping space-time - Einstein

    An opposing view: Are you going to compete in concours/AACA events? Is the car going to be the center of attention in your life? If not, don't spend the big bucks. If you plan to drive the car and enjoy it, park in shopping centers, sporting events or restaurants then save your coin for more important things in your life. If you can really afford it, then fine. If you struggled to save up the 10 grand, think twice. One parking lot ding or careless driver and its all gone. You can get a "decent" paint job that most people will respect for less. Yes, do as much as you can, take as much off the car as possible, and shop around. But here's a little secret no one will mention: MAACO. Or whoever in your area does the "cheap" paint jobs. If you strip the car and get it blasted yourself, the cost for the paint is a lot less using a Maaco shop. You will need to really check them out as they are a franchise and each one does different levels of work. You may need to go out of your area as Long Island is, I assume, a high rent area! Find a Maaco that has done a lot of older cars, classics, and maybe the owner does the booth work. They offer different levels of paint, get the best. AND they have sales, usually once a year! Just another idea...
    (I did my wagon that way, total cost (2006) $3000)
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    Summer 2020
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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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