Stage 1 vs Hemi Shootout?

Indy

I would throw one of my Pontiac's in as a PS car. I am sure Dan or the Glasgo's would too.

Now back to the real business has anyone gone faster than Dave H. in his Buick? Last I recall he had the fastest honest Buick at 12.60's this fall for PS racing. That simply does not measure up to what Bob was running in his 10K mile Cuda of 12.0's. I think the Hemi's including Randy's have the Buick's covered.

FAST cars it seems the Mopar camp has some winter work to do.

If there is a class for 100% original cars I will send my Hemi Challenger to the fight. It is 100% original drivetrain. Original bore, cam, pistons everything non rebuilt or altered including trans and diff. Nothing has been rebuilt just fresh gaskets. It has not even had the carbs and distributor changed from factory settings. If I must I can put the original exhuast (likely better than the show exhaust system) and tires back on. It is a Super Track Pack car with heavy options from being a dealer demo coded car that should represent what they really did off the show room floor. Any Buicks out there as perfectly original as the Challenger that want to join in on the challenge of another class of all original no non-factory tuning, kink bent stock factory exhaust class? Ok we will be the slowest out there, but it sure would settle the fued as to what the factory actually produced not who tunes/cheats the best.

Or better yet I will just stand off to the side and smile at the old feud bubbling up again and enjoy everyone else's participation. As I am truely nuetral in this one. I do not even care if my Hemi lost to an equally correct S1 car. It simply would be a very fun insightful race. :3gears:

Mark

 

John that is a magnanimous offer, and I genuinely hope it comes together for you. :TU:

As for it getting quiet in here, let me just say that the idea of getting all the brands together in one place for a "who's fastest" event isn't ground-breaking. It happens every September at Stanton. Perhaps the new 50 fastest musclecar list should now just be called the 130+ PSMCDR Results List.

 

Hemi vs Stage 1

Mark -- If you have a 100% correct un-modified car, we could use my brown 70 Stage 1 car as a match-up. I put the original engine back in the car several years ago and it too has never been bored or had any head or compression work, etc. It is rock stock, original paint, 71,000 original miles. Probably a mid 13 car but don't know for sure as I haven't run it since. It has run 12:20s with a breathed on engine but I decided to return it to 100% stock by re-installing the original unmodified engine. Any OTHER 100% stockers out there? Just a thought, wouldn't it be fun to run these Pure Stockers on sticky tires or slicks to see what the potential is? That could be the big difference between the Stanton race and this one.

JKC

 

Based on past experience I am going to have to nominate Mr Chamberlain as one to carry the Buick flag since it would be difficult for him to nominate himself. Also where is Mr Bob Lindquist?

"Talk is cheap. We will see you at the track"

 

Racing

JKC that sounds like an honest match up. At this piont I have no idea what mine would run. We finished the cosmetic upgrade and making it road worthy again two summers ago. It had sat since 1973 in storage. The original owner was given the car as a graduation present and he did not like it! He put it away with 15K on the odometer and it sat till I got it. He stored it well and it still ran as is plus had been preserved better than one could ever dream of. Not even surface rust. Since its resurection it has only been on the show circuit. With Concours and Mopar Nat wins its time to use it properly and race it. I have driven it with my daughters and it felt decent just not sure how it would shake out with a true rip through the gears. Looks like it may be time to find out.

Is your car on a show/factory exhaust? Is the carb/distributor tuned? If you can make those or they are the same as factory like my car, this could be absolute fun.

Mark

 

:TU:

 

Stage 1 vs Hemi

No fair, no fair -- my engine has more miles on it. ou: Just kidding. It does sound like a pretty good match-up. As we get older, it seems to be less and less important who wins on a given day. When cars are as close as these from the factory anything can happen and any sane person knows that we can never cast it in stone.. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug! Anymore it is just for fun -- isn't that what having these cars is all about? So, to that end, who else is out there with a pure stock LS6, 428 SCJ Mustang, 440-6, HO 455, etc? Then, we need to decide about which tires. I vote for stickies just because there is already a race for these cars with factory tires. Maybe we could get the FAST series cars there too and running on stickies -- now THAT would be something to see!

JKC

PS My car does have the 2 1/2 exhaust on it with factory mufflers. It has its unmodified Q Jet and it does have electronic ignition though. Easy to change if necessary.

 

There is an Olds contingent on this Board who can come up with some candidates. Where is Dave H? He knew Ransom.

 

Ignition

I have changed to Pertronix ignition at the track with no improvement. The only thing is it adds consistencey over time. If your timing curve can be put back to stock I see no issues with the electronics.

Or we could make only carb/timing as tunable items. Of course this would add work for me and take away from the 100% pure stock notion. I like the idea of it being as the factory built it as most cars stayed that way. I have owned many cars that had exact factory tuning still.

Mark

 

misc

Doesn't matter to me one way or the other. Naturally the less I have to do the better since I'll have 300 other things going on as this meet gets closer!

JKC

 

Gee, guys if you are going to use slicks tune the engines too. We want to see some speed and low times. Would you want an asterisk in a mag noting that the winner's time and speed, however, was recently eclipsed by a 2006 Toyota?

 

If you allow changes to the 100% stock cars than you get to the well tuned/prep'd/blueprinted cars we are already running in PS. At that piont I would bow out to Bob's far superior Cuda. My point was have PS cars, FAST cars, and the others that were discussed, then add in our 100% original cars. Ours would be a base line of sort to see what each type of improved car gained over the way they were shipped to the customers. And we would see the first non-adjusted cars to race in the coveted duels of this fued.

Mark

 

misc

I agree, Mark. We should have some baseline racers such as our two cars and then accend the ladder from there. That would be very interesting -- stone stock cars, then pure stock "tuned" cars and then the FAST series. And let em all use sticky tires so that we can see their true potential. Plus, it'll get the times away from that pesky 2006 Toyota!

JKC

 

but mark i thought the PS cars were as 100% shipped to the customers ??? ou:

 

If you read the rules form the PSMCDR, you would see that this is not true. The rules allow some variation to the cars from "factory delivered."

 

Just like on the "Moparts" board, the ribbing continues! :sleep:

Patrick

 

Not this monster again? This has been covered, so let's recap:

F.A.S.T. ≠ P.S. ≠ L.A.M.E. :spank:

 

There is this list too.

50 FASTEST MUSCLECARS
# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS GEAR SOURCE
1 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/65
2 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.36 CD 11/65
3 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 4-Speed 4.10 SS 6/69
4 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/69
5 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.55 CC 11/69
6 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 4-Speed 4.10 HC 6/69
7 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.70 HC 5/68
8 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
9 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
10 1968 Corvette 427 13.41@109.5 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.55 CD 6/68
11 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 4.10 HR 2/69
12 1968 Charger 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.23 CD 11/67
12 1970 Plymouth Superbird 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 ? ? ?
14 1968 Road Runner 13.54@105.1 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.55 CD 1/69
15 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
16 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
17 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
18 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 4-Speed 3.91 HC 9/69
19 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
20 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
21 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 4-Speed 4.56 SS 4/68
22 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 4-Speed 3.23 HC 2/64
23 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
24 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
25 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
26 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
27 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.36 CL 8/71
28 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
29 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
30 1970 Hemi 'Cuda 13.78@101.2 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 9/69
31 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 4-Speed N/A HR 3/68
32 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.55 HR 5/67
33 1965 Catalina 13.80@106 421 6V ? 4-Speed 3.42 CD 3/65
34 1969 Super Bee Six Pack 13.80@104.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CD 7/69
35 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 4-Speed 3.91 MT 1/71
36 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CD 4/66
37 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 4-Speed 4.10 SS 4/69
38 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
39 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
40 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 4-Speed 3.91 SS 9/69
41 1969 Cyclone Cobra Jet 13.88@101.7 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 1/69
42 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
43 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 4-Speed 4.10 HR 1/62
44 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
45 1962 Catalina 13.90@107 421 4V ? 4-Speed 4.30 MT 5/62
46 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
47 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
48 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 4-Speed 3.91 HR 2/70
49 1970 Torino Cobra 13.99@101 429 4V ? 4-Speed 3.91 MT 2/70
Legend: CC=Car Craft, CD=Car and Driver, CL=Car Life, HC=Hi Performance Cars, HR=Hot Rod, MCR=Muscle Car Review, MM=Mopar Muscle, MT=Motor Trend, SS=Super Stock