I'm not surprised that the early articles used "modified" cars with headers and slicks. No one in their right mind would run street tires at a drag strip back then, and headers usually went on right before the chrome reverse, Cragar SS or Torque Thrust wheels (usually before the first car payment was due). :laugh: Can't believer Mr K ran that Superbee on the factory tires with manifolds back when it was new. Right? Racing with manifolds and street tires is a relatively modern thing from where I sit and some of the greatest racing yet. Mega thanks to Bob, Dan, Casey, Brian, Pete, JJ, and others to get this all going and make it what it is today. Otherwise my Ramrod would never have been put on a drag strip.. Hmmmmmm...sure could have saved a huge pile of money....maybe enough to get the dents pounded out and the rust fixed, let alone a much needed paint job. :laugh: :laugh: Somehow I doubt this rematch will calm the fires of the contraversy no matter how it's run, just add some new fuel to the fire. That's cool.
This pretty much covers it... :grin: Like the Biblical David vs. Goliath story, the Hemi vs. Stage 1 has a certain mystique and will continue to draw a crowd. This long standing rivalry wont be ending anytime soon Both the Hemi and Stage 1, do what they do very well. Now...Who's gonna get dat A%# busted? :laugh:
Yep, this pretty much covers it... :grin: Like the Biblical David vs. Goliath story, the Hemi vs. Stage 1 has a certain mystique and will continue to draw a crowd. This long standing rivalry wont be ending anytime soon Both the Hemi and Stage 1, do what they do very well. Now...Who's gonna get dat A%# busted? :laugh:
I would think a low option non-GSX Stage-1 would be a better choice for this test as they are truly the quickest. To all you Chevy and Mopar heads out there about 75% of Stage-1's came with A/C.
Good point copperhead. Everybody thinks all the Hurst Olds were screamers, too, but lots of them had A/C and a 3.08. Same goes for Olds 400's. BIG difference in the 65-67 and the 68/69. Like night and day (which equals about 1 1/2 to 2 seconds in the quarter, car to car (if you could ever find two set up the same way.,....just like this Hemi/Roadmaster thing).
Who wants to run their Nailhead Buick against my Biscayne ? I'm up for a Chevy vs. Buick challenge ......... :beer
This is a good question because there`s no doubt the Hemi used in this shoot-out will be the Mopar camps Hemi representative. I think both sides can lose and still be "OK" with it if they know there was a honest effort to try and win. I`m not saying anybody cheat but at the very least the car needs to go to a few test-n-tunes to get a good feel for it and nothing less than a perfect running car on either side.
After alot of consideration. I've decided to throw my name in for the challenge. I believe my Challenger would have some advantages over Marks and possibly make the race more competitive. No power steering or brakes, and no asswipe options :laugh: . The car can have a refreshening like the Buick which would put things on a more even tier. Of course I would need to a set of rules that both camps would follow! What better than have a Mopar/Buick guy who owns one of each participate. I only throw my name in the hat because Mark has offered to step a side if another car possibly better prepared to race stepped up to the table. Well here I am. A competitve race is all I'm after. Patrick
let them run three times... and on the 3rd run let the drivers switch cars,now thats a story line... :3gears:
Readiness It is not lost on me that people are brand loyal and will be behind their brand 100% and want that brand to knock the other one around. I am looking at it as a fun event, and would like to keep my attitude that way. But do not misunderstand my intent on wanting to be first across the line. The car will be properly ready for the event and I have plenty of passes down the track in PS cars. I have driven both torq monster cars, high reving big blocks, and small blocks in PS/FS type races. I think what Dan is looking for is the most virgin cars not the rebuilt cars. That starts heading the shootout down the normal PS route and he has told me that is not what he wants. PPPJJJFFF I will tell Dan about your car in any case, just in case he wants to level the playing field with Lyndons car. But PPPJJJFFF being able to get these cars off the line and down the track can be more important than the power they make many times. As I recall you said you have no experience racing these cars and that can be a large handicap. Of course you have a full season to get prepared in the driving department. Dave I have over 1 month to have the car tested on the track after the Mopar Nats. The rest of the items will be addressed before even leaving for the Mopar Nats. With stock tuning only allowed all you really can do is make sure every item functions to the best of its ability. This car already does that and we will recheck each item anyhow prior to the race. My car is a trailer queen but they all finish as racers sooner or later. I do not allow sputtering piles that can barely make it off the trailer around me. Don't forget my Challenger T/A went striaght from winning senior class at the Mopar's Nat's to fastest small block Mopar at the '04 race and we cert'd that car in the pre race tear downs. Any virgin Buick's out there to suggest to Dan along with PPPJJJFFF's Hemi? Mark
Dan needs to move away from the "must use stock jets" mind set.. These cars were tuned from the factory and most likely they were tuned to work with the fuel that was available at the pumps back in 1970. Todays fuels burn different and will require different jetting. I agree lets run two stock cars, but for god sakes have them both tuned in properly. Because it`s an e-body and it`s very heavily optioned there may not be a slower hemi combo to use for this shoot-out. I`m sure Mark & everybody will agree on this. I don`t doubt Mark`s ability to race or build cars and for god sake i think Mark is an asset to this hobby and a great guy. I`m concerned about the car itself and the level at which it was been restored to. I think those two things combined will be the down fall in this shoot-out. I hope I`m wrong. Mark you have said you have the fastest PS Pontiac out there, the Mopar camp expects this to be the fastest PS Hemi out there. Good luck.....and make the mopar camp proud.
Mark I have to agree with a lot of the people on this board that you are bringing a knife to a gun fight.Challengers are just not the top gun from the Chrysler camp in a pure stock form.Your car does have a lot of weight from the options that are on this Challenger.A better choice just like at the Muscle Car Review Races would of been a Hemi Road Runner and a Black Hemi Road Runner would of even been better. Even the Road Runner is not even close to being the top dog from the Mopar Camp.
This thread is kinda cold, but I just wanted to chime in... Reasons the 70' Hemi Cuda should not race a 70' GSX: 1) By the time the technicians figure out how to keep the Hemi running at idle, Its nighttime and the track closes. 2) E body structural design is so poor that the rear of the car will tear off with the axle, upon launch. 3)Mopar wiring is so bad that the mopar will likely catch fire before the end of the quarter 4) The 426 Hemi is so heavy that the mopar wont steer well and will crash into the wall before the end of the quarter 5) mopars rust so bad that the hemi will likely fall out of the car before the end of the quarter 6) Hemi cars never get a chance to race because they keep getting sold on ebay every two hours for an extra $25,000 :spank:
To address issues for consideration: 1) A Hemi-Challenger would not be top dog as far as a pure stock Mopar. That's true. I can think of a few better choices, but you can't have everything. 2) My Challenger is set-up from an options point (or lack of options) to reduce some wait. 3) The buick is not a "pure stock untouched survivor". Neither is my Challenger. It can be rebuilt to stock specs or changes as per the Buick. ( No variances). 4) Mark and I may not be the most talented drivers. Using my car doesn't mean I need to be driving it! The cars are being raced and compared. Not the drivers. I'll gladly let an experianced Hemi driver run the challenger. Then no excuses that the car didn't have fair representation because the driver was incapable. Car against car, hemi vs. Stage 1. 5) Owning both, I want to see a fair race. No matter who wins, I won't be dissapointed. No disgrace in my stable. Patrick
:error: Pay attention to the Rules, Mister! uzzled: Unless he's gone faster than 12.39 at a P/S event, I believe that honour goes to Tony Goodman. That said, I think Mark has prettier cars! :grin:
Now I have heard everything! We have come along way from Buicks run like they are tied to a tree to now Buicks have a weight advantage? Well how about most Mopars have a traction advantage due to leaf spring suspension. lets face it they are all nice quick cars and now most people who are in the "know" know that Stage-1's are at least equal to every front and rear seat musclecar ever made. I can't quite figure why the auction dorks havn't figured this out yet? Maybe I hope they never do as I would rather be able to drive my real stage-1 than think about some dorky investor showing his dorky friends the car just sitting in his garage. If these guys ever got a real ride in one of these cars they would probably wet their pants like a little girl!
Let Dudek drive the Mopar,and Gessler can drive the Buick.Both are well respected drivers of each brand.
