Truth or consequence

When an engine is supposed to be stock, aside from an allowable increase in compression, how can a big name engine builder get more gains than an average engine builder that builds an engine paying attention to clearances ? Other than proper blueprinting, what more can be done (within the rules) ?

The problem relating to the build of this car is the controversy surrounding the Firebird. One of the people involved with the assembly of the Firebird reportedly had revealed several things that weren't legal. I looked under the car and saw adjustment knobs on the rear shocks and the front suspension bushings aren't stock type either. When someone changes the visible parts without regard to the rules, you have to wonder about the parts that aren't visible.

Also, when you have an engine built for the pure stock racing, and you install a cam that runs up to 8000 rpm, you have to wonder if the rules were even in the engine build plan. To infer that a repro hemi cam is not available is kind of ridiculous. Anyone with deep pockets can easily have a cam ground to stock specs.

 

"When an engine is supposed to be stock, aside from an allowable increase in compression, how can a big name engine builder get more gains than an average engine builder that builds an engine paying attention to everal things that weren't legal. I looked under the car and saw adjustment knobs on the rear shocks and the front suspension bushings aren't stock type either. When someone changes the visible parts without rclearances ? Other than proper blueprinting, what more can be done (within the rules) ?"


Well, I guess if you knew that, then you would be at the front of the Pack.

 

...and instead of kitchen cabinets, you get an upright pantry with an English bench attached to it. Great craftsmanship, amazing attention to detail, but not exactly "correct", either.

Apparently, the engine in question required an immediate camshaft swap once it hit Michigan soil, which makes one wonder if Ray truly understood the intent/premise of the rules. And just like this isn't the "New Yankee Workshop", this isn't the wild, wild west of NHRA's SS/AH class either, with their huge cam tunnels, reworked valvetrain geometry, sheet metal intakes, etc, all spinning to well over 10k rpms...

 

"That isn't my goal. If it was, i couldn't afford it.......... When I first started attending the PSMCDR, there wasn't a designated "winner."

I didn't mean at the PSMCDR, I was referring the front of engine builders pack.

 

At the time I certified, that was all that was allowed. The only rules that have been changed since then was to be able to raise the compression. So if my valve job was "state of the art" and the only way to be legal back then, and the only thing allowed at the time, how can an engine now run that much better if that is STILL within the rules???

 

As for SS/AH...The rules are clearly documented and Wescott and everyone else works within the rules....And those cars are heavily teched.

Tech it heavy...If it passes, great!...If it doesn't, well, shame on them. Just seems as though it hasnt made a single pass, no one has teched it, yet some are crying foul..????


MB

 

Jim , when you and I Certified the focus of the race was , Do the best you could with what you had and legal. When we certified , you had to use NHRA approved pistons and Mill the heads to get the compression up. And You had to run the Blueprint cams.. It didn't have ANYTHING to do with who spent the most money back then.

But as the newer more entitled crowd came in, the rules changed , and so did the budgets. As MR Keyes put it so eloquently earlier, That we had all better get off our wallets and blow the dust off. And quit being whining Pu$$eys. I too don't see where all the extra money is going. I see the effects.
Money is what Ruined and was the down fall of the NMCA , Thats how the Pure Stock drags was born. It wasn't supposed to be all about the money. And F.A.S.T. was born cause people couldn't help themselves again. Some of us voice our opinion due to discust and frustration. Not because thats all we have to do. It's OUR race too Not just the guys showing up wanting to drop an unlimited budget and be #1.

I have been staying out of the Hemi thing the best I can, trying to Only comment on facts and REALnumbers from the past. Stuff that I saw with my own eyes and had Proof of. Hopefully this this is the fastest Hemi ever. CUZ once it goes past 11.49 we don't have to deal with it anymore.

---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------

Jim , when you and I Certified the focus of the race was , Do the best you could with what you had and legal. When we certified , you had to use NHRA approved pistons and Mill the heads to get the compression up. And You had to run the Blueprint cams.. It didn't have ANYTHING to do with who spent the most money back then.

But as the newer more entitled crowd came in, the rules changed , and so did the budgets. As MR Keyes put it so eloquently earlier, That we had all better get off our wallets and blow the dust off. And quit being whining Pu$$eys. I too don't see where all the extra money is going. I see the effects.
Money is what Ruined and was the down fall of the NMCA , Thats how the Pure Stock drags was born. It wasn't supposed to be all about the money. And F.A.S.T. was born cause people couldn't help themselves again. Some of us voice our opinion due to discust and frustration. Not because thats all we have to do. It's OUR race too Not just the guys showing up wanting to drop an unlimited budget and be #1.

I have been staying out of the Hemi thing the best I can, trying to Only comment on facts and REALnumbers from the past. Stuff that I saw with my own eyes and had Proof of. Hopefully this this is the fastest Hemi ever. CUZ once it goes past 11.49 we don't have to deal with it anymore.

 

So Tim, We have had some cars already run faster than 11.49, are you saying "good riddens" to them as well? Just curious

 

It wouldn't bother me,there should be ramifications to pushing the envelope

 

I'm saying It isn't up to us... From what I heard, the owner of the track is kinda fed up with this stuff. I think I even started a thread saying that!! I personally can't wait to see what happens. If it's another hollow threat or a real warning.

---------- Post added at 03:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 AM ----------

I'm saying It isn't up to us... From what I heard, the owner of the track is kinda fed up with this stuff. I think I even started a thread saying that!! I personally can't wait to see what happens. If it's another hollow threat or a real warning.

 

Oh OK, It almost sounded like you personally thought a car that runs 11.49 or quicker has no business racing at the Pure Stock Drags.

 

No business.

F.A.S.T. should start something like an 11.00 to 11.50 elimination class. I think it would promote more car builds for F.A.S.T. and allow future growth into the faster class.:TU:

Of course you'd have to keep the 9.90 to 10.90 cars from dropping down a class and reeling 'em in. :laugh:

 

Or Pure Stock could just tech the top 5 or 10 cars. And this conversation would not exsist. If the cars don't want to tech send em home.

 

So.... Nobody has the balls to say all this when Jimmy and Terry run well below a .49 but when Rick puts a Hemi Road Runner together that hasn't even turned a tire yet everybody has a stone to throw? I'm sure Peter isn't sitting on his hands, won't be long before he ruins the class as well. To be honest I just don't see why anyone cares. Morgan,Clary,Stefina why does it matter? You don't have to race them for the big money. As time goes on these cars will only go faster. If Dan and Bob don't think it is worth it to put a stop to, who cares? If they don't want to tech the cars well then what do you think is going to happen?

I can see how Ricks Road Runner is the problem though.

 

The most impressive number is Jimmy's 125+ at Stanton, low, low 11 second MPH. 10 second car on east coast.
Terry's car went 11.20' s at Martin last year in June.
Bob's car has been 11.50' s and 11.62 at the pure stocks last year. (same engine in 68 trim knock off 1.5 tenths easy)
Rick's Bird low 11's, not even fair to mention the MIR time everybody else would have been near 10's.
Copo's ZL1 11.50 car, i believe.
Larry's Vette is as fast as the others

There's the fastest cars running.. The problem is already here and Rick's bird is lost in the pack along side all the other cars. Judging by all the post over the past year or so somebody might think Rick's car is the only car running.

Carry on.....

 

I have not memorized anyone's times but have the Corvettes run under 11.49 at the PSMCDR ?

Rick's Road Runner raised eyebrows because the engine was built for the PSMCDR with a cam that did not appear to be remotely close to stock. Naturally, you have to wonder about the rest of the build.

You are right though, he hasn't been to the track with it so this might all be a moot point. But what else is there to do (discussion) while waiting for the season to begin ?

 

Two Corvette`s ran under 11.49 last year at Stanton, I`m thinking 11.43 & 11.48..

 

Thanks for asking Tom. Actually I have been sitting on my hands as to not get dragged into this. For 2011, I took 70 lbs out of the car, and for 2012, I will be putting two new tires on. OK, back on my hands!
Peter

---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

Sorry Steve, I don't have this years sheet yet, but last year you made 373 horse on a 335 rated car. That's a difference of 38 horse more than stock. This year according to Hemmings, my car made 457 horse on a 430 rated motor. A difference of 27 horse. So ho is cheating more????????? To say no sub 11 second cars is more than interesting. Maybe if you get to the low 12's you claim to be aiming for, that will make you king of the $hit pile.
I have raced 4 COPO cars at pure stock over the years, soon to be 5, and each and everyone of them has a stock blueprint cam or stock over the counter GM cam in them. What ever is available. People used to ask me what cam I run. I did'nt think we had a option.
Having said all that, if I came on the site and showed a vidio of my motor on a dyno going 8000 RPM, I would expect lots of upset people. No car with 130 lbs of spring pressure running a remotely stock cam will run 8000 with out failure of some type! NONE!
Peter

---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------